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June 24, 2010

Comments

Julie

I hear so much about "gay pride" and being "tolerant", but I don't think I've ever heard a message at church about what the Bible teaches about homosexuality. I realize it's awkward and not p.c., but maybe it's time. Perhaps a ministry/support group for people and family members struggling with/affected by homosexuality could accompany such teaching. I know it's a very difficult issue, but very soon such teaching will probably be illegal as it is in other countries.

Cbarbour

Perhaps they wouldn't need a pride month if they simply weren't treated like 2nd class citizens? Give them the same rights that heterosexual married couples have and I think the average gay couple would be perfectly happy. Free to split property. Free to be on insurance plans. Free to make decisions about end of life care.

As for teaching about homosexuality in the bible, how about we teach what the bible says about adultery and divorce first? It's mentioned a lot more, is a lot more common and is far more damaging to families right?

Smithson

Cbarbour: So by your rational we should have a "Celebrate Adultery Month." Certainly don't want those who cheat on their spouses to "feel" like second class citizens do we? Let's just make everything be right regardless of what God says in His word so everyone can feel good. Why should we pay attention to God anyway just because he says something is right and something else is wrong? We should decide for ourselves shouldn't we? I think this is the same conversation Eve had with Adam.... Opps

Cbarbour

No, my rationale was clear. If you allows gay couples the same rights as heterosexuals, having their own month would likely not be necessary. Had blacks been treated equally, I doubt we'd have a black history month. Is it really that difficult to understand that government sanctioned discrimination yields resentment and makes people feel less that equal?

I'm still waiting for the sermon that tells me it's still OK to sell my daughter into slavery because it's in Leviticus.

Smithson

Sorry Cbarbour, can't let you get away with that argument - comparing the supposed plight of the homosexuals to slavery and racism - an old and long discredited arguement. Further you are missing Mark's point - that homosexuality as a celebrated choice in America by proclamation of the President is more than seeking 'justice and equal rights' for homosexuals. There's a very negative spiritual componet to this proclamation. You may celebrate it and think that it is well deserved, but for me, I'm with Mark and shake my head and say 'is this the pathway to a holy nation?' BTW: I'm not trying to change your mind Cbarbour, but at least be consistent and support the 'Celebrate Adultery Month' as they should certainly get the same rights and recognition as gay couples don't you think?

Jim

I'm with Julie. With 5000 people in front of a message in a weekend, when do you take the blog post to the congregation and convict hearts? Then we can all turn to pg. 186 and sing "Just as I am". The church is becoming "lukewarm"

Kathy Guy

It may not be helpful to the country, but it also may not be hurtful. It might be awfully divisive to the body of Christ, which is definitely not helpful. I also thought "holy nation" in the Bible referred to the people of God, not necessarily the United States, etc.

Referring to the original concern of how do we explain this to our kids, I'd suggest, "Honey, the most important thing to remember is that we matter because God believes we're worth the death of Jesus. That's our primary identity. Some people think other things about themselves (sexual orientation, political party, nationality, etc) are the source of their value and worth. The most important thing is that we're followers of Jesus."

greg

The little digs about the president are getting real old. Its not all the time but if you go back through your blogs mark there are more than a few. If you dont like him keep it to yourself.

Janet

I wouldn't consider "facts" as "digs". We need to be bold and not "lukewarm" Rev 3:16. We are told to obey our leaders unless they go against what God directs in His Word.

James Kytta

In answering the issue of Ex. 21:7( not Lev. ) this passage is not condoning selling a daughter into slavery it is simply regulating the practice just as Moses regulated divorce. Jesus answered the view point of God by condeming divorce and I am sure if Jesus were asked about the Ex. 21:7 He would express the view point that slavery was wrong. We are all slaves to sin but Jesus set us free.
ICor.7:20-24"Let each one remain in the calling in which he was called. Were you called as a slave? It does not matter to you, but if you are able to become free, use it rather. For he who is called a slave in the Lord is a freed man of the Lord. And likewise, he who is called a free man is a slave of Christ.
You are bought with a price, do not be the slaves of men. Each in whatever way he was called, brothers, in this remain with God."

Scott

What I would tell my children would depend on the questions they ask!

Michelle

Mark, when we finally meet Jesus, we will all be accountable to Him for our actions, thoughts, and words. Why would you feel it is your right to judge anyone on this Earth as you appear to be judging homosexuals? For the record, I am not a homosexual. I find it so hypocritical for you to speak of God and being a Christian and then so easily judge a group of people as though you have been given the power by God himself to do so. What makes you believe that the relationship between two homosexuals is only about sex and sexual desire? Is your relationship with your wife only about sex and sexual desire? I would tend to doubt that, just as I would doubt that there is no more to a homosexual relationship than sex and sexual desire. I believe Jesus himself said that he who has not sinned should cast the first stone. In other words, we are not to judge other people, unless we ourselves have not sinned (and we know that is not the case for any of us). You should spend more time reflecting on how God wants us to love and accept each other (all of us, not just those who live their lives as we do), and less time judging others. Remember, you too will be judged one day and part of that judgement will be how you treated ALL of God's people. You should also spend some time asking yourself what kind of pastor would make a group of people feel unwelcome in his church?

Jennifer

I agree with Michelle, and it really annoys me when being gay is reduced to just being about sex. The LGBT Community has much more pressing problems to deal with.
As someone who works in an Outreach Ministry at my church I have seen first hand the trauma that discrimination has in this community. In the hospital setting, I have sat with someone while he was dying as his family refused to respond to the calls from the Dr. I have seen 2 families refuse to claim the bodies of their son's because they didn't want friends to know their children were gay. I know 2 women who have been together for over 25 years who were told they weren't allowed to take part in the Lord's Supper because their kind weren't welcome there.

This Proclamation is about the LGBT Community being proud of all that they have survived. The humiliation, beatings, and discrimination. It is in memory of those who were murdered for how they dressed, spoke, or looked at someone the wrong way. It celebrates thier survival in the very communities who call them sinners and tell them that,"God hates Fags". It speaks volumes that they are still able to love and be loved without judgement as they are judged.
So, if my 6 year old son were to ask me and my husband what this Proclamation is about, I would tell him it is about being nice to people and honoring our diversity. It's about not calling people names and being fair and respectful regardless of our differences. Just like he does on the playground.

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